Mysticism, Modernity, and Meaning: A Conversation with Swami Chinmayananda

Mysticism, Modernity, and Meaning: A Conversation with Swami Chinmayananda

In this rare 1984 interview at Deakin University, Swami Chinmayananda eloquently bridges ancient Vedanta and modern life, addressing topics like Hindu philosophy, caste, mysticism, and Western rationalism. With clarity and wit, he reveals how spiritual self-mastery offers a timeless path to inner peace and social harmony.

---

Introduction

In 1984, the serene halls of Deakin University, Australia, played host to one of the most compelling voices of modern Vedanta—Swami Chinmayananda Saraswati. During his first visit to Australia, Swamiji engaged in a wide-ranging dialogue that traversed not only the depths of Hindu philosophy but also its relevance in the modern world and its resonance with Western thought.

Swami Chinmayananda (1916–1993) was a visionary teacher and spiritual leader who spearheaded a global movement to share the timeless wisdom of the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, and Advaita Vedanta. A former journalist and academic named Balakrishna Menon, he underwent a profound transformation under the guidance of Swami Tapovanam in the Himalayas. Renouncing worldly life, he became a sannyasi and dedicated himself to interpreting and spreading the message of Vedanta in a language accessible to modern seekers.

He founded the Chinmaya Mission in 1953, which has since become a worldwide spiritual and educational organization, known for its commitment to scriptural study, youth empowerment, rural development, and value-based education.

In this rare and thoughtful conversation, Swami Chinmayananda addresses questions about the universality of Hindu philosophy, the significance of rituals, the caste system, mysticism, the challenges of modernity, and the possibilities for intercultural and interreligious understanding. With characteristic wit, clarity, and compassion, he offers profound insights into how Vedanta can serve not only as a spiritual path but also as a framework for personal transformation and societal harmony.

What follows is a transcript of that historic and illuminating interview.

---

INTERVIEWER:

Swami-ji, you're very well known in India and come from a long tradition of Vedanta. This is your first visit to Australia, and we would love to hear more about your background. What kind of work do you do in India through your ashram, and what has brought you to the West—particularly to Australia?

---

SWAMI:

We run an institution in India that functions as a Hindu seminary. We train young boys to understand the depth of our scriptures. Once trained, they are sent out across India, usually to regions that match their native languages, where they preach and spread this philosophical understanding.

This was a necessity because for nearly 800 years, the philosophical core of Hinduism had been neglected. The spiritual depth of our religion became unknown even to our own people, though ritual practices continued without understanding. I felt this needed revival.

So in 1952, we started our work. By around 1960, I started a school that sends out trained batches every three years. They travel across the country and share the teachings.

Later, we saw more and more students coming from the United States. But they often struggled with the food and lifestyle in India. That’s when I thought—why not start a center in America? So we did. One of my disciples went there and trained a batch.

Apart from that, we travel from place to place, often speaking in open-air universities. We conduct public discourses on the Gita and, in more private classroom settings, teach the Upanishads—often tying them with modern scientific developments.

We also offer avenues for social service. We've opened about 42 high schools, nine colleges, hospitals, diagnostic centers, and more. These give our students a place to work, serve, and learn how to apply their understanding in real-world settings.

---

INTERVIEWER:

Swami-ji, it’s clear you believe Hinduism has much to offer people in the West. You’ve already spoken about starting a center in America, and now you're planning one in Australia. But what are the challenges in translating Hindu philosophy for Westerners? Can we truly understand it? Or is it too foreign for us?

---

SWAMI:

That’s a good question. To me, the idea of “East” and “West” is only geographical—or at most, a difference in skin color. But the urges of the human mind are universal. All people seek happiness.

However, what most people pursue is pleasure, not true happiness. This confusion is global. Let me give you an example. A baby, when hungry, screams for milk. If it accidentally finds its thumb near its mouth, it starts sucking it—believing it’s the source of milk. There's temporary quietude, but when no milk comes, the baby cries again. Similarly, we chase money and material things for happiness, but they offer only momentary pleasure. What we truly desire is joy that lasts.

So yes, the philosophy resonates. And no, one doesn't need to give up their religion to understand Vedanta. The aim is to understand the steps and their purpose. With the right understanding, religion becomes a reflective and transformative path.

---

INTERVIEWER:

So you see Vedanta as a kind of foundation that underlies all religions?

---

SWAMI:

Indeed. Vedanta lays down the fundamental truths upon which all religions stand. Historically, it came earlier. But if any so-called religion contradicts these fundamentals—such as the idea of a single, eternal, changeless truth—it isn’t truly a religion, but merely an imitation.

---

INTERVIEWER:

Do you have many Western followers who integrate Hindu thought with the faith they already practiced—say, Christianity?

---

SWAMI:

Yes, many do. Most remain Christians or Jews. They’ve never asked me to convert them, and even if someone asks, I tell them—we are not interested in increasing numbers. Your religion can lead you there too, as long as it is practiced with the right understanding and orientation that Vedanta offers.

We have students and followers in America, the Middle East, and even among Arabs. They remain Muslim, but appreciate and study the philosophy. They don’t need to change religion—just understand its depth.

---

INTERVIEWER:

Critics sometimes say Hinduism developed within a particular social structure—such as the caste system—and therefore supports inequality or a rigid lifestyle not adaptable to the modern world. How do you respond?

---

SWAMI:

Every religion has two sides: its deep philosophical essence and its social, ritualistic expressions. The rituals are always shaped by the social conditions in which the religion evolved. For example, Islam arose in a context of tribal conflict, so it emphasized unity and rejected idol worship to eliminate causes of division.

In Hinduism, the caste system originally represented a psychological classification—Brahmins for knowledge, Kshatriyas for leadership, Vaishyas for commerce, and Shudras for service. These types exist everywhere—even in Australia.

What happened later was unfortunate. In the first century, India experimented with eugenics—"selfing," as in agriculture. Brahmins were encouraged to marry within their group to produce scholars. This led to a burst of genius in the second century—in astronomy, mathematics, medicine. But the experiment continued too long, and eventually led to degeneration through inbreeding and social rigidity.

The original idea was noble, but it got corrupted. Today’s casteism is a perversion, not what was intended. Jati—sub-castes—are remnants of that degeneration. But the spirit of classification remains globally valid.

---

INTERVIEWER:

With the technological and cultural changes sweeping across India today, do you see Hinduism adapting?

---

SWAMI:

It must adapt. Hindu culture has always evolved while retaining its core. Greek, Roman, Egyptian cultures rose and fell. Ours continues because of its intrinsic vitality. Whenever Hinduism seems to be dying, a great soul arises to revive it—Vyasa, Buddha, Shankara, Ramanuja, Vivekananda.

Western rationalism has its place—but intellect has its limits. Vedanta begins where intellect ends. Rational thought is necessary to approach the truth, but it must eventually be transcended.

---

INTERVIEWER:

Would you say then that Hindu mysticism offers a corrective to Western over-reliance on reason?

---

SWAMI:

Yes. Rationalism is like the flower—beautiful but not the fruit. The fruit comes later—after surrender, silence, and spiritual inquiry.

Vedanta leads you through intellect toward spiritual realization. We don’t reject rationality—we fulfill it.

---

INTERVIEWER:

So there could be a basis for unity between Christian and Hindu mysticism?

---

SWAMI:

Absolutely. At the mystical level, all descriptions converge: timeless, deathless, immortal, unchanging. Whether it's in Christianity, Islam, or Vedanta, the essence is the same. The differences are cultural—rituals, symbols, garments. Power and politics exploit those differences, not spirituality.

---

INTERVIEWER:

Some say Eastern religions aren’t concerned with social justice. Is that true?

---

SWAMI:

We don’t march around claiming to save mankind and end up starting wars for peace every few decades. We believe that if every individual reduces their ego and selfishness, social order will naturally follow.

---

INTERVIEWER:

Would you say then that Hinduism is better suited to address modern problems?

---

SWAMI:

I wouldn’t say it’s “better,” but I would say it offers something vital—especially to today’s youth, who are intellectually overstimulated and emotionally undernourished. Vedanta teaches them how to find their true Self, and master both inner and outer worlds.

---

INTERVIEWER:

So how do Western students begin with Vedanta?

---

SWAMI:

We begin by asking simple but profound questions: “What have you done for yourself?” Most people are shocked—they’ve earned money, built houses—for others. Then we guide them to self-mastery, using rational inquiry, illustrations, and charts. In four talks over four days, we can communicate the essence and give them a map of their inner life.

---

INTERVIEWER:

How important are scriptures in this study?

---

SWAMI:

They are the foundation. It's not my opinion—I teach from the Upanishads, the Gita, and the Brahma Sutras. These have been tested and verified through experience over centuries.

---

INTERVIEWER:

So how do you “move” the immovable Hindu God to the West?

---

SWAMI (laughs):

That’s a poetic way of putting it. The Divine is not geographical. We don’t need to move temples—we need to awaken understanding.

---

INTERVIEWER:

Where do you place figures like Mahatma Gandhi and Sri Aurobindo in modern Hinduism?

---

SWAMI:

They were both great seekers. Gandhi sought peace in action, Aurobindo in contemplation. Both are valid paths. Gandhi may not have formally studied the Vedas, but his commentary on the Gita reveals deep understanding.

---

INTERVIEWER:

Today, Gandhi seems forgotten. Why?

---

SWAMI:

Time passes. Even great figures fade. But the essence of their work remains. And if, hypothetically, India became like China and banned religion, Hinduism would still survive—because its core is not temples or rituals, but the eternal truths of the Upanishads. Those can never be erased.

---

Thank You

Thank you for taking the time to engage with this timeless conversation. We hope Swami Chinmayananda’s words offered insight, reflection, and inspiration. May the wisdom of Vedanta continue to illuminate your path, wherever you are.